Submission to Authority?

The only time God permits us to disobey earthly leaders is when they require us to do something morally wrong before God.

True or False?

The Honor Academy teaches this. So, let’s examine it.

Let’s pretend for a moment that Dave Hasz tells the interns that they must wear only blue shirts on Mondays. Is it morally wrong to wear blue shirts on Monday? No. So, according to this teaching, interns must comply or they are being disobedient and therefore sinful.

Let’s pretend that Dave Hasz says that you must only write in pencil. Pens are not allowed on campus. Is it morally wrong to write only in pencil? No. Again, according to this teaching, interns must comply or they are being disobedient and therefore sinful.

We can see that applying this rule just doesn’t make sense. God did not give authority to our spiritual leaders to control any/every area of our life. In fact, He did not give them the authority to control us at all – only to guide us.

Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example. I Peter 5:3

If anyone could have control over another believer, it would certainly be Paul. In fact, he once wanted Apollos to take a certain trip and Apollos refused! Can you imagine the horror of refusing the Apostle Paul?! Here is how he responded:

Now about our brother Apollos: I strongly urged him to go to you with the brothers. He was quite unwilling to go now, but he will go when he has the opportunity. (I Cor. 16:12)

Wait, so Paul didn’t demand obedience or coerce Apollos? Nope. He gave Apollos the freedom to make his own decisions. Why? Because Apollos didn’t have to obey Paul!

If he didn’t have to obey Paul, why do you have to obey Dave Hasz or Ron Luce?

368 Comments on "Submission to Authority?"

  1. Watchman Trent | October 26, 2010 at 1:32 pm | Reply

    Irritatingly enough I have had this argument with TM people, and when you called them on the lack of Biblical support they said, by giving your word to the HA you agreed to come under their authority. Essentially they use their half-baked understanding of certain honor codes to try to justify their controlling tendencies. Their argument as I heard it over and over was not that it was a thing of inherent morality, but by coming to TM you had made a specific covenant with them.
    The trouble with that is that it cancels out your freedom in Christ. If you are living your life according to a covenant of honor instead of the righteousness of Christ then you have chosen to worship honor over God. Someone who was raised with a more holistic understanding of honor (like myself) had that ingrained in me early on.
    Honor is not salvation, honor is not even necessarily righteousness (though they often go together).
    And while honor has has great value, if it is worshipped above God it will inevitably justify Christians doing un-Christlike things.
    The Crusades come to mind…

  2. Wow.
    I think my entire life has been changed by this post.
    THANK YOU SO MUCH.

  3. For some real fun sometime, try saying exactly what Jesus said about authority, then watch authoritarian teachers saying it's rebellious and contrary to biblical principles. (That happened.) Makes one wonder whom they're really following!

  4. Eric, love your article at that link. My fav line:

    “All authority in heaven and on earth,” just so we’re clear it’s all-inclusive. Not “all spiritual authority” or “all authority in the church” or “all authority over My disciples.” Those would be radical enough—but “all” means “all.”

    This isn’t anti-authoritarianism. There’s plenty of authority for us to obey—but only Jesus has it. It does not belong to anybody else. It is not given to anybody else. It is not shared with anybody else. If anyone says they have any authority in any context and their name is not Jesus Christ, they are wrong.

  5. "It’s not even about “servant leadership”; it’s about servantship."–Eric P.

    "Wait, so Paul didn't demand obedience or coerce Apollos? Nope. He gave Apollos the freedom to make his own decisions. Why? Because Apollos didn't have to obey Paul!"

    Wow!! Eric and RA, My whole world just changed by reading your posts. Freedom feels good. Now it's just the matter of trying to override years of wrong teaching and learn how to live free.

  6. just playing devils advocate here….

    what about these verses?

    Romans 13
    Submission to the Authorities
    1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

    Romans 13:4-6 (New International Version)
    4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

    Hebrews 13:16-18 (New International Version)
    16And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
    18Pray for us. We are sure that we have a clear conscience and desire to live honorably in every way.

    1 Peter 2:12-14 (New International Version)
    12Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
    Submission to Rulers and Masters
    13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

    By going to TM did we not willfully put ourselves under the mantle of TM Leadership?

    The Bible does not make concessions to these verses that are applicable when Leadership is wrong does it?

    The Bible is clear that our leaders will be held accountable for the choices they make (including the rules they impose). Are we not then held to whether or not we submit and obey?

  7. As I understand it, Romans 13 and I Peter 2 is about governmental authorities, not church leadership. And yet, there are many times when civil disobedience is not only necessary, but godly – i.e. Civil Rights Movement. How can we tell when its right to obey and when its right to resist authority? The answer: We disobey and resist when that authority operates outside their God-given scope.

    In the Civil Rights movement, the government acted outside of their God-given scope by essentially decreeing that black people were lesser humans. This is outside of their God-given authority and therefore we do not submit to it.

    Authority is NOT the same as authoritarian.

    I don't understand the argument that submitting ourselves to Dave Hasz/Ron Luce and TM's rules has greater power and authority than our submission to the Word of God. We can't negate the Word of God by submitting to something other than that (TM's Rules). Well, actually, we can negate it – and thats why so many people's lives are messed up.

    If willfully putting ourselves under authoritarian, abusive leadership cancels out the freedom and grace of Christ, then we are all in a world of trouble.

    Plus, what a great loophole for abusers! You don't have to abide by what the Bible says – come sign on to MY rules and that will supersede everything else.

    See how that doesn't make sense?

  8. Also, you asked:

    "The Bible does not make concessions to these verses that are applicable when Leadership is wrong does it?"

    Just to clarify, I understand this to mean that it doesn't matter if an authority figure is wrong – you must obey them anyway. I don't see that in Scripture anywhere. Off the top of my head, here are a few people who disobeyed authority and were praised for it:

    – Egyptian midwives
    – Rahab
    – David
    – 3 Wisemen
    – Nearly all of the Discples
    – Stephen
    – Paul

    Non-Bible Times:

    – Our Founding Fathers who rebelled against England
    – Civil Rights Activists
    – Bible Smugglers
    – Underground Missionaries

    If you are going to say that you must obey all authority no matter what, you have to be consistent. No more smuggling Bibles into China like TM has done in the past, no more supporting missionaries in closed countries, etc.

  9. To add another element to the mix here – Teen Mania's materials have been inconsistent and vague through the years on what constitutes authority that must be obeyed. From the Battle Cry Campaign article at Wikipedia, the two lines below are from different, varying versions of the "Teen/Teenage Bill of Rights" that has appeared at various ATF's through the years. The second of these lines was clearly visible on the 2005-6 ATF manual cover.

    "We will respect the authorities placed in our lives, even though some may not live as honorably as they should."

    "We refuse to be led by those who are morally bankrupt."

  10. @4mrcoradvisr–"The Bible does not make concessions to these verses that are applicable when Leadership is wrong does it?"

    Au contraire:

    When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, saying, “We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29).

    Also the Rechabites in Jeremiah 35 (I won't cut and paste the whole thing): God set up them up to disobey the prophet's orders in the temple– as an object lesson to the prophet and the priests that they ought to obey God rather than men! God actually commends and rewards them for standing up against pressure from authority.

    Also, Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego– do I really need to quote anything here?

    The TM party line (interesting word choice by the way in "Devil's advocate") might say that these people were being told to do things that were specifically contrary to the Word of God: stop preaching the gospel, worship idols, murder, etc. Fair enough– but if we believe what Jesus said about authority, then it's contrary to God's Word for spiritual leaders to insist on exercising authority:

    "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you." (Matthew 20:25).

    A spiritual leader who says they should be allowed to lord it over you is specifically going against Jesus' commandments. Therefore, according to Scripture, you are free to obey God rather than that leader.

    (Also, the Scripture never talks anywhere about a "mantle of leadership." That's something somebody made up.)

  11. The 10 commandments, rolled into 2. Love the Lord your God, Love your neighbor as yourself. If you love others, as self, then should there be a question of whom to obey? A follower of Christ, aka, Christian, will not allow pride in self, dictate what others must/must not do. Just a thought.

  12. Wow Eric…. I never thought about that…. no such thing as a "mantle of leadership"… so many things to ponder in this post. Thank you RA & everyone for your insights!

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