Putting Things In Context

When asked pointed questions (like during the conference call) Teen Mania leadership often obscures the truth with doubletalk. Instead of admitting what they’ve said and done – they often say the exact opposite of what we all know to be true. While they’d like to say that I’m the one taking them out of context, I think this audio mashup actually puts things IN context.

This mashup is made of the conference call and 2 years of “Aura of a Statesmen teachings.” (2001 and 2007) It contrasts Dave’s insistence that this teaching is his own personal opinion with his actual teaching. Music provided by Positively Dark.

350 Comments on "Putting Things In Context"

  1. Oh that was just too darn funny! I feel the need to go put on some make-up now. And, ya know, cut my boyfriend's hair.

  2. Context is king but Blagojevich is court jester. Can't wait to get to a computer where I can watch this…

  3. But there is nothing inherently wrong with the Aura of a Statesman speech. The problem is not Dave's opinions on dress or the strength of his opinions. The problem is the culture where interns take Dave's words a just about as important as the Bible even when he says they're not bible. It's a philosophy of authority issue.

    The basic principles of the Aura of a Statesman speech are said in almost every piece of success literature out there. And they are said just about as vehemently. The problem is not that Dave gives this speech, but that the interns are not primed to receive it in a healthy way.

    It's not Bible. Dave knows it's not Bible. The interns think they know it's not Bible, but many of them don't. And there's your problem. We should have been able to take Aura of a Statesman, recognize that the basic principles were sound, and tailor the application of those principles to our own lives and values.

    But we were 18, brainwashed, fiery and zealous, and half in love with (non-romantically) Dave and every word he said.

  4. TMGoth – I agree with you to a certain extent. The dangerous teaching on authority is at the root of nearly all TM's problems…And parts of the speech aren't wrong in and of themselves…

    But I would like to point out that on the conf. call Dave says that he always starts the teaching by saying "This is not Biblically based." However, I did not hear that comment in either of the classes I listened to.

    Also, when he says things like, "God has called us to be statesman." And "We are going to hold you accountable to that standard" and "Its imperative that we have the aura of a soldier/statesman" – he isn't exactly making it optional…

  5. I don't think he has to make it optional or even state that it's not Biblically based. I think he can (and does) make the argument for this speech from a Biblical standpoint. He just has to make a stronger distinction between a Biblically-based argument, and Biblical truth. Aura of a Statesman is a Biblically-Based Argument, based on Dave's interpretation of scripture (mixed, I'm sure, with the common-sense teachings of the Success movement).

    Where it gets muddled is that believers are allowed to disagree with Bucolically-based arguments, no matter where they are coming from. I don't think most interns (or many people in general) understand that distinction.

    Another distinction that I found befuddled people (those who couldn't understand why a goth chick was not offended by Aura of a Statesman) was the distinction between principles and application. The basic principles that Dave lays out in the speech (to my remembrance, I haven't heard it in full since 2002) make a lot of sense from a number of standpoints. We can argue whether or not they are Biblical, but they are certainly intelligent.

    You can agree with the principles of social and cultural relevance in dress and manner while disagreeing wildly with the application of those principles. Interns and others seemed to think you had to take the entire speech, application and principles, and apply it all… Which I think is tremendously wrong-headed. I see that wrong-headedness (and its origins in false and sloppy teaching) as the problem, not the content of the Aura speech. Dave can say it's imperative that we have the Aura of a Statesman, because he's not fundamentally talking about wearing a suit and putting on makeup. He's talking about presenting yourself in a way that is accessible to the most people. Which actually makes a lot of sense.

  6. my problem with this commentary is dave's use if the word "exude" . . . he sounds ignorant.

  7. TMGoth – I agree and disagree. 🙂

    If its part of a discipleship program, it has to be optional. When how we dress, etc. becomes some kind of measure of our spirituality – we have gone off the rails. See my post on Monday for further clarification.

    I don't really see how its a Biblically-based argument…his proof text is very weak (we are ambassadors of Christ). I could easily make a much strong argument for NOT being a statesmen, just off the top of my head…I Cor. 1: 27:

    Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things

    That said, I don't have a problem with extra-Biblical teachings – as long as they aren't at all confused with Christianity. Unfortunately, I don't think that is the case with this. You seem pretty smart and have parsed that out for yourself, but its not presented to interns in the correct way, nor do they receive it in the correct way.

  8. RA- I see your point more clearly now.

    Aura of a Statesman really had no place in a discipleship program. But HA really isn't a discipleship program, it's a leadership academy.

    Then again, most interns (myself included) THINK they're in a discipleship program… And TM presents HA as a discipleship program to prospects… which is really a lie… or a half-truth, which amounts to the same thing…

    So everything is all messy and lie-ish anyway.

  9. And the fact that you can present an opposite argument based on scripture is exactly why there needs to be a very clear distinction between Biblically-based arguments and Biblical truth. But that distinction is sorely lacking in all kinds of places. :/

  10. Here's my beef,

    Dave's view about this topic is not only beyond the biblical standard of behavior, From where I sit it's clearly antithetical to the a biblical worldview. Teaching young believers who are trying to navigate their understanding of a biblical gospel to perform and behave according to ANY standard other than pure gospel is gross spiritual negligence. Sure, the "world" may judge you because of your errant behaviors and immaturity, but you don't correct immaturity with rules for living.

    Paul's choices to adapt and adhere to non-essential cultural issues was something to be done by knowledgeable believers. By mixing life skills/leadership training with discipleship you're tangling up understanding of performance and spirituality. It's a daft attempt to speed up the growth process, but it results in people who have weak understanding of theology and a strong ability to impress authorities.

    Another really dangerous element is the idea that as Christians, we must remember that our faith is in opposition to the world's system. The world selects leaders who are eloquent, stately, and genteel. Most leadery people have pedigree and social power, while the church was built by leaders who were opposite of this system. The disciples weren't stately, they were roughneck. They weren't learned, they were practical. It's easy to believe that the "system" the the church is opposed to in America is the system of sex, drugs, rock n' roll and depravity, but I suggest that Jesus would have much more to say about systems that disempower the poor, the minority, and the oppressed. Standing against debauchery and licentiousness is easy compared to confronting the dark heart of legalism and social engineering.

    nice mashup btw.

  11. Anon at 2:32…
    Ignorant like not capitalizing proper names and using "if" instead of "of"?

  12. Nunquam Honorablus | September 1, 2010 at 9:58 pm | Reply

    Anonymous 4:49- if you wanna get REALLY nit-picky, you could say that ending a sentence with a preposition is also ignorant, as it's not technically proper English. 😉

  13. Anon @ 4:49 Reminds me of a song…

    "But there you go once again
    You missed the point and then you point
    Your fingers at me…"
    -Jack Johnson – It's All Understood

    That aside, thanks RA for posting this – it was good for me to hear this teaching that has been stuck in my head/life alongside what Dave said in the conference call. Strangely healing 🙂

  14. Phil Boltz, that is a very good beef.

  15. Krista – So glad to hear it. That's exactly what I was going for.

  16. I do know that when I heard this (two seperate times) it was always prefaced with, "this is not biblical truth, this is just my opinion."

    I do think that there is still a GREAT amount of misunderstanding on the parts of the interns. I know I did. I took it as meaning, if I don't look and act a certain way then I am a failure and God does not love me.

    I'm pretty sure this happens quite often.

  17. PHIL BOLTZ…whoever you are!!!
    you hit the nail on the head brotha…
    this shouldn't be so much about "teen mania ruined my life"… it should be about knowing the Gospel and the truth of Scripture… if they're wrong in their teaching and understanding of Scripture, don't listen to them.
    how much more would we learn to know Christ if we were proactive in learning the Scriptures and teaching, exhorting, reproving with them…???
    whoever you may be, Mr Recovering Alumni, my encouragement is to know CHRIST…
    not to hate people that are wrong…
    i wanna join with you in your pursuit of Him…
    and just wondering, Recovering Alumni, do people know who you are on here or are you only known as Recovering Alumni?
    oh, and i'm posting as anonymous cuz i don't have one of the other accounts…
    my name is Omar…
    i am also an alumni… 🙂

  18. Omar, just a note, not all of the regular readers here are christians.

  19. Hi Omar,

    I agree that as Christians, we can look to Scripture about the teachings of any man (TM included). But, be careful, Teen Mania DID ruin some people's lives – and they have every right to talk about it. You might want to read the comment policy to give you an idea of the community we have here.

    And yes, I only go by the moniker Recovering Alumni.

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