A Man’s Lust: Whose Fault is It?

A few weeks ago, a kerfuffle erupted in the now defunct HA/RA Discussion Group on facebook. A former intern asserted that the Honor Academy teaches the dangerous and victim blaming idea that women are responsible for men’s inability to control their lustful thoughts. In response, Dave Hasz stated unequivocally that the Honor Academy does NOT teach that women are responsible for a man’s inability to control his lustful thoughts.

And yet, we have so much evidence to disprove that.

As we proceed, please keep in mind that this is a sensitive topic, especially among those who have been sexually assaulted and harassed. In both Christian and non-Christian circles, victims are often blamed by saying that they “were asking for it” with the way they dressed, etc. The only person that is responsible for unwanted sexual thoughts, sexual advances, sexual harassment or sexual abuse is the perpetrator of those acts. If you can’t understand that, your comments will be moderated. Many of my readers have been victims of sexual abuse and its important that this remains a safe place for them.

So, on to some of the evidence.

1) In the document, “Ways a Teen Mania Woman Acts on Campus,” one of the most shockingly sexist pieces of TM literature I’ve ever read, we read the following:

She carefully and tastefully selects what she wears, as a result, she respects herself and honors her brothers.
— She checks herself before she leaves her room (cleavage, outfit length and tightness, splits etc)
She realizes that men are visual and she doesn’t want to be the stumbling block to any of the men on campus.
— She allows other women to speak into her wardrobe
— If she has any doubts or concerns about her outfit, she asks and takes advice or she changes

2) Last year, during one of her Risen Women’s classes, Katie Luce said,

“We have a responsibility to our brothers in the Lord. Girls, they are so visually oriented and that’s the way God made them. And so we’ve got to be careful and we’ve got to guard their purity and guard their hearts and love them by dressing appropriately.” You know I’ve heard girls say, “Well if he lusts after me, it’s his problem.” And I say, “No, girlfriend, it is YOUR problem because the Bible says to us that we have got to dress modestly and we’ve got to be obedient to that. Now, if you are dressing modestly and then he is lusting after you – yes, it’s his problem.”

There are so many problems with this teaching, especially as its carried out at TM. There is already a strict dress code – its not like women are going around in mini-skirts and halter tops. Who gets to define modesty? Who defines appropriate dress?

At Teen Mania, simply wearing your purse across your chest is considered inappropriate because it emphasizes your breasts.

Women are often made to feel guilty that they are tempting guys just by virtue of their existence. This is unhealthy and breeds unnecessary shame for the women and endows them with a sense of suspicion of the guys – who are portrayed as largely sex-crazed and unable to see anything else in a woman. Can you see the dysfunction?

3) Women of the Honor Academy have been subjected to a teaching on purity entitled, “Do Not Arouse anything in your brother you cannot righteously fulfill.” Notice who they are teaching is responsible for a man’s arousal – the woman. (Side note: arousal is not a sin! Its an involuntary biological response.)


“Do not arouse anything in your brother or sister that you cannot righteously fulfill. What does that mean? It means that you should not defraud your brother or sister. Stirring up desires in yourself or in your brother and sister that you could not fulfill and still remain Christlike.”


During that same teaching, the women are also taught the absolutely insane and absurd idea that, “The only reason for marriage is that 2 can serve God more effectively together than apart.” (But that’s a whole ‘nother post!)

So, we have an official Teen Mania document circulated amongst the women, an official record of a “purity” teaching that makes women responsible for a man’s arousal AND an official teaching from Katie Luce herself dated just over a year ago. That is more than enough evidence to disprove Dave’s statement.

And yet, I know there is so much more out there. Women – were you made to feel that you were responsible for men’s inability to control their sexual lust? Men – did you feel you had the right to confront a women for wearing something that caused you to lust?

Sound off.

321 Comments on "A Man’s Lust: Whose Fault is It?"

  1. Bravo for this! It sure would be interesting to see Dave's thoughts on this now…. oh wait, we have already seen them. Dave called the women liars, threw and 3 yr old hissy fit, and left the board.

    I recall being subjected to this quite frequently. It was always the woman's fault if a male began to have feelings, or began to have impure thoughts… never the male's fault.

  2. Very well done I would love to see what the HA people think of the proof but I doubt we will ever know.

  3. "But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust." –James 1:14

    Not "by what someone else wears."

  4. Yes, yes, yes. This is something I've been battling for years. Thankfully, I now feel free to wear my purse across my chest! In all seriousness, though, I wish more people understood this. I actually saw a Youtube video a few weeks ago (one of my friends on Facebook posted it) of a teaching where the male speaker basically told a room full of teenage girls that it "wasn't christian" to wear a bikini.

  5. ALL OF THIS. I also remember the double standard that went along with this. In one of the discussions on purity and standards of modesty that I remember hearing about from Dave, he had men and women raise their hands for different things that would affect their ability to keep their thoughts pure. Among other things, he asked the men to raise their hands if they were visually stimulated and the majority (though not all) raised their hands. He used this to stress the importance of modesty among the women on campus and the reasons behind the rules of public dress, especially the need for women to wear shirts and shorts over their bathing suits. Then he asked the women how many of them were visually stimulated. Not the majority, though still quite a few raised their hands. He told them that the pool and the court were places where the men were allowed to be shirtless and if that were a problem for them it was their responsibility to avoid those places.

    The message about lust being a woman's responsibility was really two fold. Not only were women responsible for men's arousal but their own arousal, unless falling into a very narrow window, was not only their fault but treated as though it were unnatural. I remember being pressured into attending Woman at the Well because I'd been in a relationship, that had gotten mildly physical and in which I was the aggressor, before attending the HA. Men, even if they were expected to deal with it in a Godly way, were expected to experience some sexual desire. Women were not supposed to experience sexual desires outside of wanting to someday fulfill their husbands sexual appetite and if, God forbid, they ever found yourself aroused they'd better get themselves to Woman at the Well because there was something wrong with them.

  6. *they ever found themselves…

  7. Excellent post, RA. This describes a completely dysfunctional way of looking at human sexuality which degrades both the men and the women, albeit it in somewhat different ways. Once again, the HA chooses to take a legalistic approach rather that what I would think of as the genuinely Christian one, which is that sexuality, like the rest of our personhood, is best experienced in the context of loving empathy for our fellow human beings.

  8. Man. Just reading that list (of the perfect tm woman) left my head spinning! There are so many rules. I find the top 5 ALARMING.
    She's an amazing Christian who put's Christ above everything else, (IMO- to live IS Christ. Not a number on a check list. Though I doubt teen mania will EVER understand that one.)
    Who isn't too close to her friends, or really, anyone… No humans. Not even her parents.
    And the last line, after they've ripped her to shreds yet AGAIN, she of course trusts her leadership.

  9. This is what happens we have parachurch organizations get into our bedrooms. This a overhyped, works-based legalistic way to control sinful desires. Jimmy Swaggart and many others use to preach hell, fire and brimstone about lustful desires, yet were engaging in these same desires.
    Keep your eyes on Jesus for He is our Perfect Counselor and He is the only One who is able to control any sinful desires we may be engaged in.

  10. ishouldcareless | January 16, 2012 at 11:54 pm | Reply

    Fitz…I'm totally stunned by that. I don't think I've ever heard it expressed so clearly. It succinctly exemplifies precisely what is wrong with TM's philosophies, teachings, etc.

    We are not guardians for anyone except ourselves. To put that responsibility on others is can turn abusive. Who is to say what "modest" is? Every culture has their own standard. There are many standards within sub-cultures, too. Who's to say which is right? If you are comfortable in your own skin and you are not publicly exposing yourself, then I don't get what the problem is. I personally have no issues with either of the sexes going topless in appropriate situations, but I digress. Having women change something about themselves in order to make a man's life easier is sexism at it's finest. I can only wonder how else this philosophy comes into play in a hundred different subtle ways.

  11. All of this.

    "I remember being pressured into attending Woman at the Well because I'd been in a relationship, that had gotten mildly physical and in which I was the aggressor, before attending the HA."

    It makes me angry to hear this crap again, it's crippled me for such a long time. The purse strap that emphasizes your breasts crap, tank tops of any kind crap, the "women can't be sexually aggressive" crap… it's all crap and they preach it like we aren't good people and Christ can't have made us to desire sex because we are just women…. oh it makes me angry to think that normal, healthy, young women are still hearing this over 10 years later.

    This teaching from the HA has directly distorted my self-image and sexuality for too long. But not any more- Christ came to seek and save even women who like sex : )

  12. I would like to re-write those "Ways A Woman Acts On Campus" points. It's hard for me to believe that BB felt good about teaching those things.

  13. I still get a chuckle about the "allows other women to speak into her wardrobe." Well there went any doors, so the was kind of no stopping it.

    I feel like this was handed out to us in a woman's meeting my year.

  14. Seriously, This teaching is the single most horrible teaching I've ever heard. I used to say that I don't blame TM for my life turning out so sucky but this teaching is a major MAJOR reason why life sucks for me now.

    I have married a man who whole heartedly believes I should be all the things on TM's list. IT is hell. I can't believe that they don't see the PRISON they are throwing women into by teaching this crap. I am saddened that I ever heard the words AQUIRE THE FIRE. I am saddened that I ever looked up to women like KL. I am upset that women have looked up to me as I've preached this junk as well.

    There is a huge double standard. I remember being told that if we were tempted to look at the boys at the pool, then we should not go to the pool. My year girls even went as far as wearing shorts and T-shirts over their bathing suits. But the boys could remain shirtless. I also remember not getting in the water for fear that my shirt would be to clingy and show my bust or something.

  15. Anonymous – My heart hurts for you. I'm so sorry for your situation.

  16. anonymous… how very, very painful….
    I remember hearing similar stories of married hell from about interns who graduated more than 15 years ago…. absolute caveman behavior / forced "submission" in the name of Christianity. Married each other straight out of the internship and obviously what was learned there in no way promoted "loving your wife as Christ loved the Church & gave Himself up for her." This shit has been preached to interns even pre-Hasz era.

  17. This is works guys. Works. This is NOT how salvation through Christ works. Our coming to Christ is not based on works and our keeping salvation is not based on works. This has nothing to do with your fellowship with Christ. In fact, Jesus hates the self-righteousness of these men who are falsely teaching that works make you worthy in the sight of God. Your belief/faith in Him makes you right in the sight of God. I am so sadden not only by the physical and emotional abuse that is bestowed upon these young people both men and women, but the spiritual abuse is horrifying. How many think that they have to work their way to the Lord? How many think if only I say things right; wear the right thing; marry the right person; do the right thing, etc. will make me justified in the eyes of our Savior? Hogwash!! and shame on you TM!!

    I am so sorry anonymous.

  18. Wow. This brings up a lot of old wounds.

    I am a woman, and I am also visually stimulated (to some extent). I remember being very VERY careful in regards to modesty while on campus, so I wouldn't be a stumbling block (but I also had issues when it came to femininity, and would mostly dress in men's clothing – and TM only INCREASED them, because I was petrified of doing anything that would contribute to lust in any fashion. So I would basically deflect attention by making myself as UNfeminine as possible for someone with good skin, long blonde hair, and blue eyes…).

    Anyway, the one thing that would always get my goat (and this was before there was a pool – it was only built near the end of my year), was how the "men" would wander around campus in their wifebeaters all the time. I mean, like I said, I'm visually stimulated, and some of those young, virile, 18-year-olds – especially who worked on Grounds Team – were in their physical prime, know what I'm sayin'?

    And they'd be working out, lifting weights and whatnot whenever they had extra time…

    Why?

    "For their future wives."

    So, what I could never understand was, if they were chiseling their bodies to such perfection for the sake of their future wives, why they thought it was OK to walk around in such revealing clothing for all the other women on campus.

    I mean, couldn't I have made the same argument and walked around in a short skirt and tank top?

    Uh, no. I guess not. Because my visual stimulation was an aberration of nature, a result of a fallen world, and I needed prayer for healing (I was actually told that by a co-leader on a mission trip once).

    Arg.

  19. Wow.

    Not only is a quite a bit of "Ways a Woman Acts on Teen Mania Campus" unbiblical, but it is contradictory to itself!

    As far as the double standard described by several commenters (Fitz especially), I can't even believe that! "Girls: don't wear anything to cause your brothers to stumble. Guys: be shirtless if you want, your sisters will have to avoid you if they don't want to stumble." HORRIBLE!

    On one hand, Paul says that "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial….do not do anything to cause your brother or sister to stumble." That is biblical, but there is also definitely accountability on the side of the 'stumbler'and a line to be drawn. We can't be forced to hide. What's next? A hijab and long robe for the women so "their brothers don't stumble?"

    My overall reaction: I don't have any affiliation with the HA, but I have a friend there right now, and reading this blog makes me concerned for his spiritual health because he already struggled with perfectionism and trying to please everyone around him and it sounds like that could easily be exacerbated by the climate there. On the other hand, I am a part of another "controversial" church organization, GCM, that has it's own critics, whereas my personal experience has been more than wonderful the last 3 years; so, I can't really judge without my own experience. All I can say is that I'm sure Teen mania has good intentions in helping young christians grow closer to God, but if even half of this blog is true and accurate, they need a serious reconsideration of priorities, policies, and teachings.

  20. As a former graduate of 2012, I have definitely seen many of mistakes made by Teen Mania staff and interns of the Honor Academy. Perfectionist mentality driven by the environment and interns left to teach one another without any training or supervision. Things that left me with many emotional and spiritual issues. However, I understand Teen Mania's intentions in setting standards for men and women in dress code.David Hasz did not state that women "caused their brothers to stumble" but that it was in best of intentions for those who struggled with lust. And for the women/man who quoted "Guys: be shirtless if you want, you sisters will have to avoid you if they don't want to stumble". I was the man who stepped out to yell at the men who were walking shirtless in Elliot Lobby where women could spot them. Not once have I seen a male intern shirtless on campus outdoors besides particular LTEs

  21. I agree with this here. It is not the woman's fault a man cannot control his sex drive. It is the man's fault and rather than religion celebrating the dominance and ego of males, they should make them feel ashamed of the fact they think about sex more often than any other topic. What does this say about those who wrote the Bible if the woman is to see seen as the deceiver and the temptress and she must be punished for just being a woman and being attractive? It says to me that Men want control over women. Simple. Most patriarchal religions have punishments for women who decline to have sex with their husbands when he asks for it. Such faiths also tend to place greater and stricter restrictions of women by no other virtue than their gender… Because men cannot control their sex drives and thus women must be consigned to the task of not being tempting… Islam is the greatest example of this and in fact celebrates the male sex drive while insisting women cover up completely to prevent male lust, rather than placing personal responsibility in the hands of the men themselves.

    I'll also have you know the Bible itself wants women submissive, weak, and completely under male control. This is unhealthy and dangerous for women, considering the very cause for harassment and abuse stems for the very notion that men are entitled to power and dominance while the woman must concede to this dominance subserviently. In point of fact, any woman who speaks among other believers, especially men, is committing a sin, as it is forbidden for women to teach men. Paul says that women are not to teach men nor have authority over them, but instead must learn from their husbands in silence and submission, so she may not speak in the church and thus prevent the word of God from being blasphemed… For the head of the woman is the man and the head of the man is Christ. The fact that women want eqaulity with men and their own personal freedom outside of male moderation and control is agaisnt what God allegedly ordained… but then again, the Bible itself is written by Human Males who are fallible, corrupted, and unfit to speak for any divinity. So, if any of this knoweldge bothers you, i recommend taking a look at what you put your faith in, where your knowedlge of faith comes form, and if you still choose to beleive in God, seek the Divine yourself without a book put to paper by corrupt people, for no one can say with certainty how much of the holy books of any religion are actually of the Divine.

    Trust Humans only to be Human and seek means past the cravings of Humans. Seek the Divine without others to control you. This is liberation and with it comes responsibility. I ask you, are you prepared for that burden?

  22. The thing is….& most people are blaming lusting men on Christian women/girls & the way they dress. Ok fine, I do believe we as Christian women should dress modest. But it is not going to STOP other women/girls that walk down the street everyday to dress modest. They are still going to be out there. Unless a man lives in a cage he is going to see all types of dressed women. What about tv commercials, ads on computers, tv shows or porn sites on the computer? How is the way a Christian woman dressed going to prevent men from seeking what they are looking for in other places? My husband went to those sites. I am a modest (very modest dressed Christian woman", he found what he was looking for. It has to stop with the person who has the lusting problem whether it is male or female doing the lusting. It is their choice-they are to blame for their own actions. DO NOT try to blame the opposite sex because you make the choice. I personally have to go through sales ads that come out in the paper & destroy all ads that contain a sexy model in a swim suit, bra & panties. You cannot prevent someone from lusting. Only through prayers & devotion to God can it be stopped. Do not blame a Christian woman/man & call it their fault. We are all accountable to God. He is not going to take "Yeah, but God did you see how he/she was dressed. No, no, no, He will NOT accept that as an excuse.

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